Comments on: Is BNP school-yard bullying a growing trend? http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/ A campaign against the British National Party. Thu, 13 May 2010 19:14:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sam Pauli http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-171 Sam Pauli Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:13:54 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-171 Although i dont condone violence,these fascist thugs of the bnp only understand one way .a fist right on their nose,i say you fight the rascist the only way they understand,,,bash the fash Although i dont condone violence,these fascist thugs of the bnp only understand one way .a fist right on their nose,i say you fight the rascist the only way they understand,,,bash the fash

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]]> By: Lucy http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-128 Lucy Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:45:19 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-128 Reading through these comments, it has struck me how many people talk about 'Whites', 'Blacks' and 'Asians', comparing 'us' to 'them'. I think that there's a real problem with using language in this way - it implies that large groups of people share certain characteristics or beliefs simply because of their race or religion. For instance, I'm a white British female. But this does not mean that I am anything like Myra Hindley, nor does it mean that I agree with the white British females who have joined the BNP. Whilst nearly all rapists are men, not all men are rapists. The same principle must be applied to 'our Asian cousins', as Jim Wallace put it. Yes, the people who committed the crime that he talks about were Asian - but the people who did this are the only ones to blame - not all Asians in Britain! There is such huge diversity and variety within these groups ('Whites', 'Blacks', 'Asians' etc) that we talk about so often; so it can't possibly be fair to tar everybody with the same brush. I wouldn't like to be associated with Myra Hindley because of my ethnicity or gender, and I doubt that other white males would like to be thought of as versions of Ian Huntley - so why does Jim to compare all of 'our Asian cousins' to the people who committed this one terrible crime? Why does Joanna Kirby ask us to remember that 'it wasn’t the BNP which planted bombs on trains and buses'? Because no, it wasn't the BNP - but it wasn't all Asians, or all Blacks or all Muslims either. It was a very, very small group of evil extremists who do not represent all Muslims. So, using terms like 'Whites', 'Blacks' or 'Asians' is very misleading. It makes it easier to blame millions of people for atrocities that were in fact committed by a few. It also makes it easy to think that we belong to a group of like-minded, similar people, when really we don't have any more in common than the colour of our skin. Reading through these comments, it has struck me how many people talk about ‘Whites’, ‘Blacks’ and ‘Asians’, comparing ‘us’ to ‘them’. I think that there’s a real problem with using language in this way – it implies that large groups of people share certain characteristics or beliefs simply because of their race or religion.
For instance, I’m a white British female. But this does not mean that I am anything like Myra Hindley, nor does it mean that I agree with the white British females who have joined the BNP.
Whilst nearly all rapists are men, not all men are rapists.
The same principle must be applied to ‘our Asian cousins’, as Jim Wallace put it. Yes, the people who committed the crime that he talks about were Asian – but the people who did this are the only ones to blame – not all Asians in Britain!
There is such huge diversity and variety within these groups (‘Whites’, ‘Blacks’, ‘Asians’ etc) that we talk about so often; so it can’t possibly be fair to tar everybody with the same brush.
I wouldn’t like to be associated with Myra Hindley because of my ethnicity or gender, and I doubt that other white males would like to be thought of as versions of Ian Huntley – so why does Jim to compare all of ‘our Asian cousins’ to the people who committed this one terrible crime? Why does Joanna Kirby ask us to remember that ‘it wasn’t the BNP which planted bombs on trains and buses’? Because no, it wasn’t the BNP – but it wasn’t all Asians, or all Blacks or all Muslims either. It was a very, very small group of evil extremists who do not represent all Muslims.
So, using terms like ‘Whites’, ‘Blacks’ or ‘Asians’ is very misleading. It makes it easier to blame millions of people for atrocities that were in fact committed by a few. It also makes it easy to think that we belong to a group of like-minded, similar people, when really we don’t have any more in common than the colour of our skin.

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]]> By: Tree http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-118 Tree Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:00:10 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-118 Granted, but there are other terrorist groups who are at least dormant now - the ETA (Basque Separatists) are an independantist group of Christians who've been causing issues in France and Spain for years, and still are. But, like with the vast majority of Muslim terrorist cells, these are only formed based on the fact that they want, in their view, political justice. They hate what we stand for, and they feel, like with the ETA, and the IRA in the past, that violence is the only way, when it probably isn't - it's just the way to get noticed and feared, which isn't the same thing as being respected through peaceful negotiation. Bullying is wrong, particularly on the grounds of race, as it's something that you're born with, and you can't change. Plus, if a kid is of Middle Eastern descent, so what? They're a kid of Middle Eastern descent, they go to the same school as you - that's it. End of discussion. There's no need to ostracise him, because he's still a kid, with a British passport, living and growing up in the UK. Therefore, he's British. The French have been trying to eject North Africans out of their country for the last decade, but the issue is that their passport says they're a French citizen. Therefore, they have every right to be there, because if they went back to their "Homeland" they'd actually be a foreigner there instead. If there's a problem with it, which I don't think there is in the first place, personally, then it's not really solvable, unless you go for a Nazi-style "Final Solution", which just isn't the answer either, and if it did ever happen in Britain, I'd never call myself British or English again. Honestly, I haven't heard about that - mainly down to the fact that I do live in the South, I'll admit that. But another couple of stories, which you might not have heard, have been about a couple of stabbings in Reading, both of which have been White-on-Black attacks. They both slipped under the radar as well - got nothing more than a mention on regional news - that was it. So it's clear that this goes both ways - it's not just Whites being the victims here, and most of the time, Whites kill other Whites. Murder, horrific as it is, happens a lot - it's only a tragedy if it involves a contraversial topic, or if it's the death of a teenager or a child, and even then, it doesn't get a great press, because it happens so much. As for the reasons as to why people are getting upset about the Golliwogg being burned, it's because of what it symbolises. It's like with the symbol of a burning white cross outside the house of a minority family - it's associated with strong racist attitudes, the burning white cross, of course, being a trademark symbol of the Ku Klux Klan's presence. These show signals of intent - while the KKK are telling ethnic minority families to come out of their houses, else they'll burn the house down, burning a Golliwogg symbolises that they want to be rid of ethnic minorities, i.e. through killing them. So of course, it does sound stupid at first, until you read into it. Just so you know, I do understand your perspective, jim - the only reason I'm coming up with counterarguments is just to make sure that you can see it from another angle, i.e. how people such as maurice and myself see it. Granted, but there are other terrorist groups who are at least dormant now – the ETA (Basque Separatists) are an independantist group of Christians who’ve been causing issues in France and Spain for years, and still are. But, like with the vast majority of Muslim terrorist cells, these are only formed based on the fact that they want, in their view, political justice. They hate what we stand for, and they feel, like with the ETA, and the IRA in the past, that violence is the only way, when it probably isn’t – it’s just the way to get noticed and feared, which isn’t the same thing as being respected through peaceful negotiation.

Bullying is wrong, particularly on the grounds of race, as it’s something that you’re born with, and you can’t change. Plus, if a kid is of Middle Eastern descent, so what? They’re a kid of Middle Eastern descent, they go to the same school as you – that’s it. End of discussion. There’s no need to ostracise him, because he’s still a kid, with a British passport, living and growing up in the UK. Therefore, he’s British. The French have been trying to eject North Africans out of their country for the last decade, but the issue is that their passport says they’re a French citizen. Therefore, they have every right to be there, because if they went back to their “Homeland” they’d actually be a foreigner there instead. If there’s a problem with it, which I don’t think there is in the first place, personally, then it’s not really solvable, unless you go for a Nazi-style “Final Solution”, which just isn’t the answer either, and if it did ever happen in Britain, I’d never call myself British or English again.

Honestly, I haven’t heard about that – mainly down to the fact that I do live in the South, I’ll admit that. But another couple of stories, which you might not have heard, have been about a couple of stabbings in Reading, both of which have been White-on-Black attacks. They both slipped under the radar as well – got nothing more than a mention on regional news – that was it. So it’s clear that this goes both ways – it’s not just Whites being the victims here, and most of the time, Whites kill other Whites. Murder, horrific as it is, happens a lot – it’s only a tragedy if it involves a contraversial topic, or if it’s the death of a teenager or a child, and even then, it doesn’t get a great press, because it happens so much.

As for the reasons as to why people are getting upset about the Golliwogg being burned, it’s because of what it symbolises. It’s like with the symbol of a burning white cross outside the house of a minority family – it’s associated with strong racist attitudes, the burning white cross, of course, being a trademark symbol of the Ku Klux Klan’s presence. These show signals of intent – while the KKK are telling ethnic minority families to come out of their houses, else they’ll burn the house down, burning a Golliwogg symbolises that they want to be rid of ethnic minorities, i.e. through killing them. So of course, it does sound stupid at first, until you read into it.

Just so you know, I do understand your perspective, jim – the only reason I’m coming up with counterarguments is just to make sure that you can see it from another angle, i.e. how people such as maurice and myself see it.

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]]> By: jim wallace http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-116 jim wallace Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:54:32 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-116 Tree, have you heard of any serious violence in Norhern Ireland in recent times ? The vast majority desire peace ! As for this article,, of course bullying is wrong and so is the burning of the jam jar man but remember the young lad in glasgow who was burned and killed by our asian cousins,,the media down south didnt give that story any serious coverage and now a big fuss about a teddy getting torched ! Tree, have you heard of any serious violence in Norhern Ireland in recent times ? The vast majority desire peace ! As for this article,, of course bullying is wrong and so is the burning of the jam jar man but remember the young lad in glasgow who was burned and killed by our asian cousins,,the media down south didnt give that story any serious coverage and now a big fuss about a teddy getting torched !

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]]> By: Tree http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-114 Tree Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:34:44 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-114 Jim, if I remember my history lessons correctly (and trust me, I've had a few), then Britain was originally built, from Ancient times through to about the 11th Century, by being invaded by different civilisations, and then we decided to hypocritically do the same to the indigenous peoples of other nations, i.e. American Indians and Aborigines, as well as Zulus, Indians, Pakistanis, etc. Basically, the proud empire that we developed was as a result of going to peaceful nations, destroying their homes, as well as their way of life, and, in the case of African tribesmen, sending them to America to be enslaved, thus completely stripping them of any dignity or social standing they used to have. So, essentially, we were bullies - people that aren't happy with their lives, mostly through their own doing, and therefore try to scapegoat and abuse others in order to feel better about themselves. Pretty much what this article is all about really! Don't get me wrong here, but the last time I checked, the nearest place to find terrorists was Northern Ireland (the IRA), who are all Christians of the Catholic denomination. As for fundamentalists in the Middle East, maurice is right - they're not against our religion, they're against the Western way of life and what it symbolises, as are Russians (Orthodox Christians), North Koreans (Atheists) and pretty much most other "threats" to our well being. So don't go labelling Muslims as the ultimate issue here, because they're not. There are a lot more threats to the British way of life than just people of other cultures, with the main one being ourselves. Jim, if I remember my history lessons correctly (and trust me, I’ve had a few), then Britain was originally built, from Ancient times through to about the 11th Century, by being invaded by different civilisations, and then we decided to hypocritically do the same to the indigenous peoples of other nations, i.e. American Indians and Aborigines, as well as Zulus, Indians, Pakistanis, etc. Basically, the proud empire that we developed was as a result of going to peaceful nations, destroying their homes, as well as their way of life, and, in the case of African tribesmen, sending them to America to be enslaved, thus completely stripping them of any dignity or social standing they used to have. So, essentially, we were bullies – people that aren’t happy with their lives, mostly through their own doing, and therefore try to scapegoat and abuse others in order to feel better about themselves. Pretty much what this article is all about really!

Don’t get me wrong here, but the last time I checked, the nearest place to find terrorists was Northern Ireland (the IRA), who are all Christians of the Catholic denomination. As for fundamentalists in the Middle East, maurice is right – they’re not against our religion, they’re against the Western way of life and what it symbolises, as are Russians (Orthodox Christians), North Koreans (Atheists) and pretty much most other “threats” to our well being. So don’t go labelling Muslims as the ultimate issue here, because they’re not. There are a lot more threats to the British way of life than just people of other cultures, with the main one being ourselves.

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]]> By: jim wallace http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-89 jim wallace Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:06:27 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-89 maurice are you another self deluded lefty ? True what you say that not all muslims are terrorists, but they have more than their fare share,, with yellow belly apoligists like you this country is doomed,, britain was not build on being soft (tolerant to the intolerant ) so its time to show whos in charge ! maurice are you another self deluded lefty ? True what you say that not all muslims are terrorists, but they have more than their fare share,, with yellow belly apoligists like you this country is doomed,, britain was not build on being soft (tolerant to the intolerant ) so its time to show whos in charge !

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]]> By: maurice http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-82 maurice Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:50:30 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-82 Joanna, you're absolutely right not to condone violence. You are also correct to point out the challenges of large-scale immigration. Overcrowding is certainly one issue, as is the strain on our public infrastructure and the issue of social cohesion as our societies become less homogenous and more diverse. These are all bona fide concerns and it is great to hear a "de-racialised" voice in the debate. Race is not the issue, and it belongs to an era that should never have started, but thankfully ended in 1945. However, I fear that perhaps you are conflating Islam -the religion - and Islamism - the violent, political and imperialistic ideology. The 7/7 bombers were wicked, traitors. Criminals. Terrorists. But they were not representatives of Islam. The fact that the 9/11 or the 7/7 terrorists were Muslim is incidental. They were men too, it doesn't mean that all men are terrorists. Their crimes were carried out because of their admiration for the violent and political ideology of Al-Qaeda. Furthermore, just as organisations like Hizb-ut-Tahrir, whose doctrine is based on hatred and intolerance, act as a conveyor belt to Islamist terrorism. So, too, is there plenty of evidence of the BNP being a perfect incubator for Neo-Nazi terror. David Copeland, the former body-guard of John Tyndall, being a fine example. Joanna, you’re absolutely right not to condone violence. You are also correct to point out the challenges of large-scale immigration.

Overcrowding is certainly one issue, as is the strain on our public infrastructure and the issue of social cohesion as our societies become less homogenous and more diverse. These are all bona fide concerns and it is great to hear a “de-racialised” voice in the debate. Race is not the issue, and it belongs to an era that should never have started, but thankfully ended in 1945.

However, I fear that perhaps you are conflating Islam -the religion – and Islamism – the violent, political and imperialistic ideology.

The 7/7 bombers were wicked, traitors. Criminals. Terrorists. But they were not representatives of Islam. The fact that the 9/11 or the 7/7 terrorists were Muslim is incidental. They were men too, it doesn’t mean that all men are terrorists. Their crimes were carried out because of their admiration for the violent and political ideology of Al-Qaeda.

Furthermore, just as organisations like Hizb-ut-Tahrir, whose doctrine is based on hatred and intolerance, act as a conveyor belt to Islamist terrorism. So, too, is there plenty of evidence of the BNP being a perfect incubator for Neo-Nazi terror. David Copeland, the former body-guard of John Tyndall, being a fine example.

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]]> By: Joanna Kirby http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-66 Joanna Kirby Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:56:19 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-66 Whilst I cannot agree with ANY use of violence, including UAF violence and thuggery against BNP members, I have to say that mass immigration is causing a lot of problems in some areas of the country. One of the major problems is that of overcrowding - something which is leading our local council to consider building 3,600 houses on prime green belt farmland. Also, please remember that it wasn't the BNP which planted bombs on trains and buses. Whilst I cannot agree with ANY use of violence, including UAF violence and thuggery against BNP members, I have to say that mass immigration is causing a lot of problems in some areas of the country. One of the major problems is that of overcrowding – something which is leading our local council to consider building 3,600 houses on prime green belt farmland.

Also, please remember that it wasn’t the BNP which planted bombs on trains and buses.

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]]> By: maurice http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-65 maurice Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:53:45 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-65 dan, there is no "totaly biased communist crap" on this site. Nothing British recognises the fact that Britain has its problems and believes there should be open debates about some of the factors that contribute to 'Broken Britain'. We believe that there should be a debate on immigration, for example, or on social cohesion etc. However, Nothing British stands by the fact that no matter what the problems are, the BNP's extreme and racist values are making matters worse. Their exculsionist and bigoted mentality is inherently non-British. We just seek to shed light on this. dan, there is no “totaly biased communist crap” on this site. Nothing British recognises the fact that Britain has its problems and believes there should be open debates about some of the factors that contribute to ‘Broken Britain’. We believe that there should be a debate on immigration, for example, or on social cohesion etc.

However, Nothing British stands by the fact that no matter what the problems are, the BNP’s extreme and racist values are making matters worse. Their exculsionist and bigoted mentality is inherently non-British. We just seek to shed light on this.

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]]> By: Nick http://www.nothingbritish.com/08/is-bnp-school-yard-bullying-a-growing-trend/comment-page-1/#comment-63 Nick Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:54:01 +0000 http://www.nothingbritish.com/?p=277#comment-63 Don't get me wrong Dan, but this article, the one you've just commented on, is actually on a web site - therefore it's now publicly accessible information. So clearly the web site moderators do have the guts. Also, the fact that these people remain unnamed is because this is clearly a traumatic experience for the victims, and therefore they don't want their public humiliation to become widespread knowledge. Freedom of choice is something that's outlined in the Human Rights Act, something, the last time I heard, that was going to be scrapped by the BNP, so it's understandable that you clearly don't care that these people actually want to remain unnamed. Oh yeah, and if you want to read biased material not based on fact, then why not just ask the BNP for some of their fascist propaganda? I'm sure they'd be more than happy to feed you more lies to scare you into believing there are non-existent problems with the UK. Don’t get me wrong Dan, but this article, the one you’ve just commented on, is actually on a web site – therefore it’s now publicly accessible information. So clearly the web site moderators do have the guts. Also, the fact that these people remain unnamed is because this is clearly a traumatic experience for the victims, and therefore they don’t want their public humiliation to become widespread knowledge. Freedom of choice is something that’s outlined in the Human Rights Act, something, the last time I heard, that was going to be scrapped by the BNP, so it’s understandable that you clearly don’t care that these people actually want to remain unnamed.

Oh yeah, and if you want to read biased material not based on fact, then why not just ask the BNP for some of their fascist propaganda? I’m sure they’d be more than happy to feed you more lies to scare you into believing there are non-existent problems with the UK.

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