Dorset veterans speak out against BNP leader
Dorset war veteran William Davis-Sellick, aged 75, was among a number of Devonshire and Dorset Regiment veterans who joined the grieving families of the soldiers to fly the regimental standard at the ceremony last Tuesday in Wooton Bassett.
According to a local Dorset newspaper, Mr Davis-Sellick and his comrades were incensed to see the BNP leader with a contingent of party members at the solemn occasion at Wootton Bassett.
He said: “I understand it was the first time he has ever been to one of these ceremonies. I think for him to be there on this occasion was totally wrong and it caused a lot of disruption. You could see that some people were very upset to see him there and there were some people who wanted to duff him up.
“The police were having to protect him. As an ex-serviceman I have spoken to quite a lot of other servicemen and they were not happy to see him there at the repatriation of our lads. He was just there to have his photograph taken.”
Mr Davis-Sellick served as a cook in the Dorset Regiment in the early 1950s before its merger with the Devonshire Regiment, and was deployed to the Korean War. He is now an active member of the Gillingham branch of the Devonshire and Dorset Regimental Association, which has its main headquarters in Exeter.
He said: “We send as many men as we can muster to each repatriation service to fly our standards and they are very emotional occasions. To see the parents throwing flowers on the hearses is very hard. Although I was only a cook in the Army, I had some very good friends that I lost out there and these ceremonies bring those memories back.”
Tony Coombes, secretary of the Gillingham branch, who spent his national service in the Dorset Regiment between 1955-57, said that crowds were unhappy with Mr Griffin’s presence.
He said: “There were a lot of people in the crowd who were concerned by that gentleman’s presence and found it somewhat disturbing. However, I would suppose he would say that it is his right to be there.”
The Devon and Dorsets were amalgamated into the Rifles which was formed in 2007 and is the largest infantry regiment in the British Army. The Rifles has been hit hard by the recent upsurge in violence in Afghanistan. It has suffered 29 fatalities so far this year. The latest was killed by small arms fire on Sunday. On Monday this week, both Mr Davis-Sellick and Mr Coombes were again in Wootton Bassett with representatives of the Devonshire and Dorset Regimental Association to pay their respects as former Dorchester schoolboy Philip Allen, 20, of the 2nd Battalion the Rifles and Samuel Bassett, 20, of 4th Battalion the Rifles, who was from Plymouth.
Sikh pilot who fought Nazis condemns Griffin
One of the last surviving Indian Second World War fighter pilots has launched an attack on the BNP after it used images of a Spitfire in its campaign.
Mohinder Singh Pujji hit out at the far-Right party, and urged all British ethnic minorities not to shun the forces. The 92-year-old RAF Squadron Leader flew a Spitfire in the Battle of Britain and also met Sir Winston Churchill. He was one of only 18 Indian pilots in the RAF in the war, and the only Sikh to fly wearing his turban.
Sqn Ldr Pujji said he was outraged at the way the BNP has used imagery from the war: “The BNP are wrong to use the Spitfire as representative of their party. They forget people from different backgrounds helped in the Second World War. I am proof of this – I was flying a Spitfire. I also met Winston Churchill. Even in those days, there were ethnic minorities fighting for the British. I would recommend the armed forces for young people, regardless of race.”
Sqn Ldr Pujji was born in Shimla, India, and volunteered for the RAF in 1940 after qualifying as a pilot in 1937.He was shot down twice and flew missions in North Africa and Burma, winning the Distinguished Flying Cross. After the war he flew commercial airlines, settling in Newham before moving to Gravesend. He was made a freeman of Newham in 2005.
Tags: Stolen Valour, veterans
Maybe it scared the crap out of them?
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“A new study by Dr. Timothy J. Dailey and the Washington D.C.-based Family Research Council recently confirmed what police and psychiatrists have known for decades: a definitive link exists between male homosexuality and pedophilia.
The report entitled Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse, shows that while homosexual men make up less than three per cent of the adult male population, they commit a disproportionate number (one third or more) of child sexual molestations. Dailey’s report is being sent to parents, youth groups, school administrators, Catholic bishops, and religious organizations.”
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So that makes all gay men paedophiles then? I expect that the anti-gay lobby will have a field day with that report, since they’re already convinced gay people aren’t “normal”.
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Try this too: http://www.us2000.org/cfmc/Pedophilia.pdf
and
http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a02liHomo&Clergy_SophismFour.html
I could list many more religious and secular examples.
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Plus that report assumes that all paedophiles are caught, I wonder what would the statistics look like if you added in all the ones that haven’t been caught.
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I think there are more paedophiles then there are homosexuals.
What percentage of the population are gay?
I would be surprised if it was more than 10%.
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Well, as long as there are a (thankfully small) amount of people who are prejudiced against gay people I don’t expect all will be willing to “come out of the closet” so to speak. I should point out I’m not accusing anyone on here of being prejudiced against gay people.
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I think that there are more “prejudiced” than you think. They are afraid of being labelled by the pc brigade. One minute they will be publicly nodding in agreement about the acceptability of “gays”, and then ext they will be whispering, “you know, he is one of THEM”, or vigorously denying that they are that way inclined.
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The homosexual population is less than .1%. You can check this out on this link.
http://www.christian.org.uk/wp-content/downloads/homosexuality-and-young-people.pdf
Scroll down to the bottom of page 19 and then read on. The whole document is a well presented list of facts and data.
Homosexuality is chosen life style just as is vegatarianism, or being a traveller. Therefore why is this lifestyle being proped up with tax payers money and those who criticise them crimanlised? Why do they want to teach our children in school about this lifestyle.
I would ask all the peole who keep repeating the ‘racist’ mantra against the BNP if they are happy to continue with the open doors immigration policy? Assuming they are not, why do they offer no constructive alternative?
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I will admit that I get a fair amount of stick for being a straight guy who stands up for gay people, apparentely only gay people should defend people who are gay. We need to try and, if not entirely rid Britain of prejudice (since that may not even be possible), to at least ensure the bigots of this world are in a shrinking minority.
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Edmund:”We need to try and, if not entirely rid Britain of prejudice”
And gays help themselves in this by wanting to be allowed to publicly display their lifestyle on the streets? No thanks, it would frighten the horses. This is the problem, gays are no longer sent to jail for being gay, they are allowed to do whatever the hell they like in private. The point being, they are SINGLE-ISSUE and the only issue that drives them is their sexuality.
”Hello, I’m Sam Pauli and I’m gay”
How fucking ludicrous does that opener sound?
If someone was to open a conversation with ‘Hello, I’m Peter Mandelson and I’m heterosexual’ it would sound equally ludicrous (and wouldn’t work on several levels of course)
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Why shouldn’t they be allowed to? Almost every other lifestyle is allowed to be displayed in public without anyone kicking up a fuss. I’m not suggesting they should be allowed to do anything explicit in public, that’d be ridiculous, but they shouldn’t be the only group forced to almost wear a disguise in public. Having said that if you are list yourself as a Jedi and wear a Jedi robe with hood you apparentely pose a security risk (which I find laughable myself).
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It’s when you get your light sabre out & start waving it about, that they get very upset!
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There was a story about a guy who was asked to remove his hood for security reasons, who responded with “You allow Muslim women to walk around wearing veils”, and the security man’s wonderful response? “Yeah, well Yoda didn’t wear a hood and he didn’t turn to the dark side”.
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I see Sam Pauli has gone very quiet on here since being exposed as Alister Cooling the kiddy fiddling tory who used to write for and contribute to this pathetic webiste,nothingBritish about the Conservatives!ha ha ha hee hee
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Edmund says:
December 6, 2009 at 12:34 pm
There was a story about a guy who was asked to remove his hood for security reasons, who responded with “You allow Muslim women to walk around wearing veils”, and the security man’s wonderful response? “Yeah, well Yoda didn’t wear a hood and he didn’t turn to the dark side”.
So by inference the Moslem women had?
So that would be a good reason for them to remove the veils?
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I’m not sure WTF, I assume it was a rather bad attempt at a joke. The guy did do as the security guard asked in the end, if only to avoid any problems.
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Edmund, if they want to bugger each other rotten, that is fine with me as long as they do so in private. There is no need for them to have parades about their sexual activities. Is it something of which they should be proud? If you believe it is then please explain. We do not see masochists’ parades.
It is easy to use the word “bigot” when people disagree with your stance but it is not so just because you say it is.
As for veils and burqas, the wearers should be compelled by law to remove them when asked for identification purposes. The latter has been used by journalist and terrorist alike.
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What’s wrong with showing affection in public? Unless I’ve missed something they aren’t having sex in public. I don’t see people suggesting we ban heterosexuals showing affection in public. I’m not going to pretend that some don’t go OTT, I’m sure all groups have members who need to tone it down a bit. I don’t particularly agree with members of certain Christian groups standing on street corners telling all and sundry to join them or go to hell, but if they want to then I don’t care as long as they don’t force people to join them.
I completely agree about the ID point, I find it rather amusing that this guy was seen as a security risk though, it was a guy walking round in a costume from a sci-fi convention, he couldn’t be much less threatening if he tried.
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You have still not given a reason why they require parades. Where are the masochist parades? Should there be Presbyterian, Baptist, Episcopalian, RC Mormon Scientologist, Heterosexual, Spiritualist, Hindu, Moslem, Tory, Labour, BNP, Liberal, Communist, Flat Earth Society, Paedophile, Alcoholic, Temperance, Blacks only, Whites only, Asians only, Prostitutes only, Chinese only parades cluttering up our streets?
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There’s nothing in the rules that says they can’t have a parade, as long as they stay within the law. I’d think if the gay pride marches were actually breaking the law the police would’ve acted on it by now. I personally think if they want a parade, that’s fine. Its not like they’re MAKING other people watch it, if you know one’s happening then don’t go there.
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Flat Earth Society?
I thought they went on a round the world tour but for some reason didn’t come back?
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They fell off the edge, WTF! You can’t say that Gordo didn’t warn them.(Strange that he’s suddenly so anti mediaeval ideas!).
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You are missing the point. Nobody said the parades are illegal. WHY do they insist on parades? Are they trying to promote their activities or are they deliberately trying to offend (which they manage)?
The Flat Erath Society still exists but I think it is tongue-in-cheek.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/
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To Jack Lewis, apologies for only just noticing your earlier comment, its not as if gay people are trying to turn young people gay. I am yet to see, and highly doubt it exists, any evidence that teaching young people about being gay makes them more likely to be gay.
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Saying something or somebody is “gay” seems to have become a popular insult amongst the young again, a dismissive term for something perceived as weak or worthless.
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Is that a good thing? I don’t particularly think it is myself.
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I am not saying it is a good thing but after years of PC indoctrination, there’s a rebellion going on.
If you say this or that word is forbidden, it makes it attractive to those who want a shock word or something to use in a negative way.
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I don’t think gay people, directly or indirectly, being stereotyped as being weak and useless is exactly going to help avoid discrimination or bigotry. But that’s my opinion.
Through studying World War II literature I’ve read some of the names given to non-white troops during the war, all of which I would quite happily keep in the past.
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The term “gay” (Good As You) is ridiculous as well and should be consigned to the dustbin. Try reading the pleasant, classic poem”Daffodils” aloud without hearing sniggers at the lines, “A poet could not but be gay at such a jocund company”. This term distorts the English language.
If they are so proud of their activities, perhaps they should insist on the existing and accurate word “bugger”? Rename their parades “Buggers and Proud”. Call a spade, a spade, and not a bloody shovel.
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Funny, I doubt anyone would allow a parade with that name somehow. You don’t have to LIKE what someone does/believes in, but since they are human beings they at least deserve respect.
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Surely, Edmund,what WTF says about the change in use of the word gay shows just how futile it is to be so worried about words.
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Yes, but that’s a relatively tame example, some of the language used towards black people during and immediately after the Second World War should stay precisely where it is, in the history book.
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IF THE BNP HAD BEEN IN POWER IN THIS COUNTRY FOR THE LAST DECADE THERE WOULD BE NO DEAD AND INJURED SOLDIERS BROUGHT BACK FROM AFGANISTAN AND IRAQ. THEY WOULD HAVE HAD ENOUGH COMMON SENSE NEVER TO HAVE GONE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. LET AINSWORTH AND HIS CRONIES RISK THEIR LIVES AND LIMBS IN A WAR THEY CANNOT WIN.
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“but since they are human beings they at least deserve respect” Respect must be gained. What a ridiculous statement. Do Stalin and Hitler deserve respect?
ONTARGET, I accept what you say but please do not shout (using capitals is regarded as shouting and therefore, bad manners).
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What have they done to not gain respect? They aren’t breaking the law as far as I know. I’m sure they’d ask what you’ve done to deserve their respect.
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Ever seen Chris Rock, Edmund?
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Can’t say I have.
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“What have they done to not gain respect?”, from ridiculous statement to ridiculous question (I am assuming, and hoping, that you refer to the poofs and not Stalin and Hitler)! You obviously read my post, did not take it in and yet you answered it yourself. “gain respect” is the important segment.
Now, what did I write? “Respect must be gained”.
What have they done to gain respect? Of what are they so proud? Buggery?
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Why is it that’s the only part of their lifestyle you tend to highlight? That’s like people who argue with BNP members by constantly bringing up their immigration policy (or what they think it is anyway). To my knowledge they aren’t breaking the law. My point was that you are starting from the assumption you have no reason to respect them. I’d assume they’re proud of being able to live the life they want to, not being forced to live the way someone else prefers. There was a point where people would marry purely for the sake of appearing “normal” to society. And of course I wasn’t referring to Stalin or Hitler, at least give me a little credit.
Plus, I ask again, what exactly have you done to warrant their respect?
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I base my respect (or lack thereof) for a person not on what lifestyle/religion/political views/education/job/amount of wealth, but on the actual PERSON. That way I like to think I largely avoid being prejudiced towards people.
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There’s too much buggering about in this column, I’m off!
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we are supposed to live in a democratic society. THE BNP GET VOTES SO THEY ARE ENTITLED TO BE HEARD.i HAVE NOT HEARD OF THE BNP PLANTING BOMBS, MURDERING PEOPLE, BLOWING UP BUILDINGS, TORTURE OF HUMAN BEINGS, KILLING BABIES, SUPPORTING COLUMBIAN MARXIST TERRORISTS , CONFIDING WITH CUBAN TERRORISTS, GLORIFYING THE MURDERER CHE GUAVERA, RECOGNISE WHO I MEAN, YES YOU GUESSED, PIRA.,
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Is that the same Provisional IRA who have now largely destroyed their weapons, if not entirely? The recent violence was caused by the REAL IRA, which as amazing as it sounds is another organisation altogether.
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I am not convinced that they are a different organisation & are completely non violent.
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The PIRA gave up on violence, if the “Real” IRA were anything to do with them why do Sinn Fein condemn any actions by them. The “Real” IRA are the extremists who want to keep fighting.
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This is the best con perpetuated by the commys, I call them commies because that is what they are, if all the commies would stop flying the tricolour and go back to cuba or columbia and leave us true Irish in peace things would be fine. Please also do not forget that mi6 etc were running the commies for a long time and that is why they destroyed some of their weapons, although they are now out to wreck ni by other means, education being one, that is a sad laugh its being wrecked by a commie from columbia, then the next thing is law, police etc, so they get that then they demand that all prods must wear green hair and if that is not done we will then get ivan running to blair, brown, clinton crying their wee commie hearts out. I like the Brits because they are decent people, unlike the blood soaked cross eyed perverted commies.Also, if anyone thinks that the so called real ira are not the same as we have not gone away you know commies then they need their heads examined.
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What would Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA have to gain from destroying the peace process? Unless they are incredibly unintelligent they’d know it wouldn’t take much to figure out who the “Real” IRA were working for, they have in my opinion too much to lose by using that strategy. The RIRA, as well as some of the more dissident loyalist groups, don’t care less what happens if the Good Friday Agreement fails, they just want to cause utter havoc.
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“Why is it that’s the only part of their lifestyle you tend to highlight?” Because it is them AS A GROUPING that we are discussing.
I have said a number of times, respect is to be gained. What have they AS A GROUPING done to deserve respect?
I am not interested in gaining their respect although I have received some from the community as a whole for various forms of service. I do not strut the streets demanding respect or proclaiming my pride. THAT seems normal to me.
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“I base my respect (or lack thereof) for a person not on what lifestyle/religion/political views/education/job/amount of wealth, but on the actual PERSON. That way I like to think I largely avoid being prejudiced towards people.”
So you agree then? Gay Pride does not deserve respect.
“Is that the same Provisional IRA who have now largely destroyed their weapons, if not entirely? The recent violence was caused by the REAL IRA, which as amazing as it sounds is another organisation altogether.” Please explain how a group could steal weapons from PIRA and live? It is a political con. The armed campaign is merely suspended.
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Even if its them as a group there is more to their lifestyle than just that, dare I say it it gives the impression of being obssessed with sex.
Why do they have to gain your respect as a whole? What is wrong with my theory of basing your opinion on individuals as a whole? I’ve had arguments elsewhere with BNP members with some particularly bigoted views on subjects, but I haven’t judged the whole party based on those beliefs.
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“The PIRA gave up on violence, if the “Real” IRA were anything to do with them why do Sinn Fein condemn any actions by them. The “Real” IRA are the extremists who want to keep fighting.”
Why did the French and British governments condemn the Israeli attack on Egypt in 1956? Why did the USA tell Saddam’s ambassador that they did not care what Iraq did to Kuwait? Why did the USA help supply miltary material to Bosnian Muslims whilst condemning all sides and claiming that they were enforcing the embargo?
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acron, my argument was that judging someone on your opinion of a whole group is ridiculous, you should judge them based on what the person is like.
As I said to Jason, what would the PIRA have to gain by ALLOWING the Real IRA to attack. They have a hell of a lot to lose if the Good Friday Agreement falls apart. Why is it so hard to believe the RIRA are the anti-Good Friday splinter from the PIRA?
Besides, although this is a slightly less serious take on it, if you were going to try and hide that you were still launching attacks to try and con people, wouldn’t calling the group the “Real” IRA be a bit obvious?
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Sinn Fein have more to lose by backing them than they have to gain, it makes no sense. Why, when you have peace and a place in government, would anyone back a group singularly intent on robbing you of it?
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“What would Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA have to gain from destroying the peace process?” It is not what they gain but what they hope to gain. They actually gained quite a lot. NI is no longer a democratic entity. Although RCs are a minority, they are by law entitled to 50% membership of the police force which replaced the gallant RUC – against the wishes of the majority.
By the late 60s, the IRA had become Marxist, lost interest in military adventures after the failed attempts in the last two decades and lost the support of the extremists in the RC population. The Irish Republic sent up an intelligence officer to form an alternative which would continue the campaign (PIRA), an alternative which later turned and bit it’s former master.
We shall see some low-key activity to show that they are always there but still allow the populace to become comfortable. Once comfortable, the campaign will step up (assuming they can replace their lost US aid) and attempt to gain more by wearing down the will of governments and people.
Softlee, softlee, catchee monkee.
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The term “gay” is a misnomer because the word should be “sob” ie sodomites on bottoms because they are basically worshippers of bottoms, now what comes out of bottoms but crap. The media is full of sodomites, which is the true name for homosexuals hence they have influence in propaganda. There has always been sodomites, always been murderersetc but this is the first time that they have been given respect and the name sodomite is hated by them, the same way vampires hate the cross. The sodomites should be shown the error of their ways by education and medical advice because they are corrupting our young people and are destroying the society which was evolving into something worth respect.The fact that it is legalised is a benefit because we can now identify them whereas before they were hidden, the same way we can now identify the shinners, especially the ones that aided the commies in the last 35 years, it has been very interesting.During the 2nd world warthings were easier because the enemies wore uniform as they were soldiers, albeit mislead by adolf and father joe stalin, but in my opinion adolf was only a learner compared to stalin. |
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I agree with much you say. Why do we have schools’ advice on drink and drugs but little on the dangers of buggery?
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well said Acorn
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Is it not possible, however much the anti-Sinn Fein brigade might be loath to admit it, that the Real IRA are acting of their own free will and that Sinn Fein GENUINELY want peace? That’s a pretty huge gamble to take for what you MIGHT gain, and also is assuming that the Real IRA wouldn’t get fed up of waiting and up the campaign anyway. Just as there are many loyalists paramilitaries who were fiercly anti-peace process, I can entirely believe that an IRA splinter group could form with no influence from SF or the PIRA. At the very least consider the posibility that they’re genuinely interested in peace.
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I think Sinn Fein/IRA want to keep their cake & eat it.
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And what are you going to do if they don’t “see the error of their ways” as you put it?
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All this talk of buggery is a pain in the arse!
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As for “corrupting our young people”, I suppose this is the good old theory that teaching them about homosexuality makes them gay. Its an especially good theory because to my knowledge it has no proof at all and yet it continues to be used.
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Just out of curiosity, since apparentely ridding Britain of homosexuals and Muslims will fix everything, what happens if its still broken after they’re gone?
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never said anything about the muslims, I know quite a few and they are very nice people, as are most people until they become corrupted, and anyone can be corrupted. Nobody likes to think of a new born child, in all its innocence and Gods grace, being subject to either sodom or dildo attack.Besides it is too late to save the west from the decadence that easy living has brought. Just walk down any street, obese youths and girls who curse like vipers. That is of course the grand plan of the world government, pander to the basic desires of the people, feed those desires, corrupt their sons and daughters, do not have laws that are harsh to perverts, in fact egg it on, but be harsh on the critics, you must be politically correct , what is lewd and obscene worship, what is good destroy it, and if you cannot, bring in the lawyers, who as a whole are corrupt vermin and sue them for whatever, so that no one will open their mouths.That is the world today, the yanks made a fortune supplying saddam with arms, then made another fortune taking him over, since the demise of ww2 there has been no honour in the west. Look at the montnagards in vietnam, look at the ruc udr in ni, used then spurned. But the ulster folk can look at the world with pride and say “the fools they have left us our glorious dead “. We will not forget. So far none of this refers to the BNP. Why? because they are a genuine political party who only want the gb to GB, SO MORE POWER TO THEIR ELBOW.
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forgot to say that Winston Churchill, whom is justly admired and respected offered De Valera Ulster if he allowed the free state ports to be used duringww2, this was rejected by dev. So there you are, no honour amongst any of them.
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So all homosexuals are perverts? Or of course paedophiles if other commenters are to be believe? How exactly is making Britain more bigoted towards people who aren’t “normal” making it great Great? I’m sure there are plenty of heterosexual paedophiles capable of equally evil acts. Plus I thought official BNP policy was that Muslims wanted to overthrow the government (curious because I’m yet to meet a single Muslim who actually thinks that). Its funny, my recently deceased grandfather saw Britain change hugely, and lived through some of recent history’s darkest moments, and yet he treated people the same whether you were Christian, Muslim, gay, straight, old, young. When someone wanted his respect you started from the same point whoever you were.
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Jason, at least keep an open mind about it. I suppose short of the PIRA declaring war on the “Real” IRA you’ll never believe they’re two seperate organisations.
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Edmund, I know what you are thinking, and anyone who did not know what these commies are like would in all decency think the same. This is a step by step plant operation, one part of the organisation appears to want peace and does all the actions that back this up, meanwhile other commies appear to break away and continue to put the pressure on the yanks and brits who have more important things to do than pander to paddy, but look what happened in cuba, the yanks originally backed castro, as they now back the shinners. The dream of gerry and co is that ireland becomes another cuba, worship all that those sad bastards stand for, invite the chile boys down for a big celebration of the soviet way of life, they eat drink and be merry, us, the plebs, are put either to death, or work in the peat bogs till death. I have no hatred for muslims as they also detest sodomites, and all evil eminates from perverts of some kind or other, so we must battle these aliens before they overcome us.
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I still don’t see an advantage for Sinn Fein or the IRA. If they try to destabilize Northern Ireland they will almost certainly wind up in a war with the British Army. From what you say Gerry Adams can’t win in your eyes, whether he condemns the RIRA or supports them you still think he’s trying to destroy Northern Ireland. Out of curiosity, what do you suggest doing about the loyalist paramilitaries? They’ve killed far more people since 1998 then the RIRA or the Continuity IRA have. Although since their victims are in large part fellow paramilitaries is that okay?
“All evil eminates from perverts of some kind or other”? Funny, I don’t remember Stalin or Hitler being homosexual, yet by far they are two of the greatest evils of the last century. Indeed, homosexuals were among the non-Jewish groups sent to German death camps (along with communists, blacks, disabled people, “gypsies”).
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Edmund, you have a good opinion whch I respedt. I have no love for any dictator or extremist, but I have had personal experience of what the terrorists can do. You mention the loyalists, they have no ambition to enslave our peop[le, they are out and out criminals and gangsters, but do not have the dedication to ruin and despoil ireland. Have you not noticed a new phrase now coming into provo talk “new ireland”. That means dispense with thestatus quoin eire as well as ni and have cuban educated militaryetc. I must enforce the fact that a certain well known “minister” spent years in columbiagetting the release of 3 commies.You need to wake up and smell the coffee, by their actions you will know them.
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“they are out and out criminals and gangsters, but do not have the dedication to ruin and despoil ireland”. Trying to destroy the peace treaty ISN’T trying to destroy Ireland?
And what if you’re wrong? Or is the idea the PIRA might really have given up the war so incredible it can’t possibly be true?
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it is not unreasonable to say that you are naive. There are gangsters in London, are they dedicated to the overthrow of the present government? Of course not, neither are the loyalists because they are the same as the london gangsters etc, but the commies owe allegiance to a murderer called stalin, that is the difference. You must have spent a long time living in cotton wool. By the way , I served with the british army in berlin so i have seen the commies there too, in the sixties.Also as far as i can see the loyalists are not trying to spoil the peace.Too much dosh to be made.
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Groups who target Catholic businesses, refuse to disarm, and are overtly opposed to the Good Friday Agreement aren’t trying to spoil the peace? I doubt many gangsters can claim this:
“The group (Ulster Resistance) collaborated with the Ulster Volunteer Force and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) to procure arms. In June 1987 the UVF stole more than £300,000 from the Northern Bank in Portadown. The money was used to buy 206 Vz. 58 assault rifles, 94 Browning 9mm pistols, 4 RPG-7 rocket launchers and 62 warheads, 450 RGD-5 grenades and 30,000 rounds of ammunition which arrived at Belfast docks from Lebanon in December 1987. [4] Some were then transported to a farm outside Portadown, while others were spirited to the Shankill Road in Belfast.”
That seems a little more than just a group of bit part gangsters to me. If the remaining groups were interested in peace then why did they refuse to disband when most of the others gave up the fight?
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I doubt anyone unfortunate enough to have been on the receiving end of an attack by the paramilitaries would call them gangsters. Out of interest, what actual EVIDENCE do you have to support saying they owe alleigance to Stalin? I have never heard any proof of that.
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Firstly, PIRA and the “Loyalist” terrorists are still armed, still running their protection rackets. Beatings and the occasional knee-capping still occur (the last of the latter I have heard of was in April this year). The PSNI are unable to fully deal with the situation because they are not allowed to run the risk of upsetting the terrorists.
There are two distinct groupings on the Loyalist side. Those prepared to defend their province if the government attempts to abandon them and the terrorists. The former has remained out of the armed conflict but feel (correctly in my opinion) that they have the right to be prepared.
Plans were in place for our Armed Forces to deal with the impending attack by the Irish Defence Force when they moved up to the border circa 1970. Whether the government would still defend the UK border is debatable.
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Even if the PIRA ARE still armed, unless the decomissioning people are lying they have far more limited supplies. Compare that to the Real IRA, Continuity IRA and the Loyalists whose weapon caches are unknown. The problem is the PIRA have some involvement in the political process so we can keep an eye on them, we can’t on any of the others.
Unfortunately the terrorist part of the loyalists seem to think anyone’s fair game, loyalists, police, Catholics. Surely if we are meant to deal with the Republican groups we should deal with them too. They seem less interested in preparing for any war that MIGHT happen and more interested in starting it themselves.
It sounds slightly conspiracy theory-esque to assume the Republicans MUST be secretly planning something.
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Edmund you should read your irish history, at one time sinn fein wanted to become part of the new soviet republic, circa 1914 or thereabouts, they then had a civil war with their erstwhile comrades, and that goes on into today. If you live here we know them and they have surely sown their seed in the past 50 years so you can argue all you like, we know them, and will not forget our glorious dead.You then go on about a bank robbery, did you never hear about the northern bank robbery, only 30 million. Like I said before and say this with no insult intended, you live in cotton wool land surrounded by big rock candy mountain. We in ni are on our own and have been for years and as acorn correctly said the prods probably have retained arms because they do not trust perfidious albion. Only today we hear in the news that the irish government have a representative in belfast who is now involved in some property dispute, and at the same time the same irish government is depriving the prod schools of funds, do you need any more convincing. I served nato for a long time and am not going to sell my birthright for a crinkly dollar or a slippery euro. The change must come from england and that is why I will not castigate the bnp. I am no bigot and like my roman catholic , jewish and muslim neighbours so I would not back the bnp if there is evidence that they mean harm to any of them. I have had friends, ruc men, who were shot by either uvf or uda gunmen so I do not love terrorism. The brits disbanded the b specials, the udr and the ruc because they no longer had any time for them, as did maggie thatcher, but like I said before, we are ulster scots and have a proud and glorious history, that past does not know the word surrender.
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So as I said Sinn Fein can’t win, short of launching a war against the Real IRA and Continuity IRA, in your eyes? I’m not trying to insult those who’ve died on either side, I’m only suggesting keeping an open mind, rather than condemning a whole group as guilty whatever. As for the bank robbery, was the northern bank robbery, I did hear about that, however I don’t remember the money from it being used to buy enough weaponry to equip a small army. Maybe the IRA are a threat, but I personally think if they’re going to be monitored than the surviving loyalist groups need to be watched too. The danger of ignoring them is that they either think they have free reign to do anything they want, or they decide to try and get our attention, and god help whoever crosses their path when they need a bit of publicity. Any group both capable and willing of blowing up a lawyer in their car I’d count as needing to be kept under very close scrutiny.
My apologies if this sounds insulting, but considering your comment about homosexuals earlier I find the “I am no bigot” comment hard to entirely believe.
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I know this scenario is apparentely ridiculous to you, but what if the PIRA have genuinely disarmed, and so all we have is the more extreme republicans and loyalists running around with weapons? I doubt NI will be any safer if it turns into the Real IRA v the Red Hand Defenders.
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look upon the shinners as follows, when climbing a large mountain you must have base camps, the shinners have attained thier first base camp and now want to go to the second, however, being the devilsthat they are they will go to the second by various routes. Keep that in your mind and keep an eye on their machinations. You are right, as far as the majority in ni are cocerned they cannot win, they are murderers or the supporters of a murder campaign not only against the brits but also their own countrymen.They have wrecked the finest education system in the uk sololy for their own political ends, thet do not give a hoot about children, they used them as human bombs. For goodness sake read your history because you are totally inept in what you say.You then say the ira have disarmed, please prove it.You then try and put dislike of sodomites as bigotry, but that is not bigotry,read the BIBLE.It was never adam and adam, it was, thank the LORD, adam and eve.Thank goodness for the female gender.
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Proof the IRA have disarmed? Well, unless the IRA are some how bribing the disarmament commission to lie to everyone the commission seem pretty convinced that if the IRA aren’t entirely disarmed then their remaining weapons are limited. Compare that to the loyalist forces whose current armament status is unknown.
Disliking homosexuals and essentially saying “Be ‘normal’ or else” are slightly different. I’d say calling them paedophiles and perverts who are trying to destroy England is a pretty good example of bigotry.
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I take it from your earlier comment about your neighbours that you only count bigotry as hating other religions?
I did post a longer reply, but since it hasn’t appeared yet I’ll wait and see if it arrives before re-typing it.
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“The IRA has put all of its weapons beyond use, the head of the arms decommissioning body has said.
General John de Chastelain made the announcement at a news conference accompanied by the two churchmen who witnessed the process.
“We are satisfied that the arms decommissioned represent the totality of the IRA’s arsenal.”
Is that proof enough for you Jason? I’ll link you the story that’s from if you want.
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You have the comparison of the PIRA, who have disarmed, and the loyalist forces who not only haven’t disarmed but no-one seems to know the military strength of them. Fine, if keeping an eye on the IRA 24/7 will reassure people they aren’t a threat, do it, but do exactly the same with the loyalists.
Since bigotry is defined as intolerance towards anyone who differs from you (and not just in religious beliefs) I’d call it bigotry myself. I personally don’t think religious beliefs should be a defence for anything.
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You are still lost in the theme of your argument, because I told you to read the BIBLE. This you will not do because it will not be in line with your left wing, head in the sand, no hunting, no driving a car for enjoyment, global warming is man made, we all evolved from monkeys, attitude. I see and hear of your fellow travellers every day of the week, I hear the so called chosen few tell me that I should drive my car less because of global warming, whilst they can jet here, there, copenhage ,everywhere heedless to THEIR so called global warming, this is because they know they are spouting crap, but there again we are plebs. You also infer that I may be a bigot because I donot like sodomites, no I do not but I do not hate them, I feel they are lost souls in the wilderness and need to be prayed for. Tell me another country that bought their terrorists off , with the grand finale being 30 million for pension funds. I will stop now because I will throw up. Britain used to be a proud nation, then came the insanity, they let most if ireland go, now they are letting the scots go, the gods make man first those whom they wish to destroy.To me the only political party that sees this is the bnp, why, even cameron has backtracked on a referendum. Ask yourself why.
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Edmund, I have to say I am astounded you never heard of the northern bank robbery as you know all about arms.
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Even if they are arming up again (which you are yet to actually prove as far as I can see), surely it’d be safer to disarm BOTH sides? Especially considering that the loyalist groups seem to think both loyalists and republicans are fair game in their fight.
You essentially, although I may have read it wrong, that they were perverts trying to corrupt our children and destroy Britain, that sounds a bit more than just not liking them.
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Talking of the IRA…
There’s ‘nothing British’ about the tories having a former irish republican terrorist holding office in Croydon council!
Google MARIA GATLAND…
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You mean the woman who was in the IRA for a year and never took part in an attack? Not that I’m defending her being in the IRA at all.
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Ireland has always been very emotive to many people, especially in the USA. The famine is used as a whipping tool against the brits . I cannot defend the famine andit was diabolical. Relations with eire are good and are being well fostered by hmg, but no matter how they foster , eire is still staying neutral, even though they must know that in any war past orto come they will be defended by usa, gb etc, and they will not become part of nato. This is what one may call having your,cake ,jam, icingetc and eating it. It is so false that it is a world wide joke.Certainly many of their citizens still join nato and us forces, so they should because the irish are good soldiers, but why not be an adult nation and openly play their part instead of skulking in the corner. If the irish, scots and welsh were removed from the british army there would not be one. Duringww2 churchill was regretting tne lack of ports in the south, and there you have it, the brits sold out all their citizens in 1921, and made “peace” with the terrorists and they will certainly do the same with us. They know the prods are not going to bomb mainland financial centres, army barracks etc because even if they had the means they would not do it because it would be like bombing their own house.Edmund, you forget that we in ni have had our eyes opened so wide in the past 35 years that they will never close again, only in death, because we have witnessed not only the sell out of,ireland(south) the ongoing sell out of loyal ulster, but the sell out of gb as a whole to the holy roman empire, and lookwhat has happened recently, sexual profilerations (to say the least) in the centre of that. That is why you should trust the BIBLE, it actually forecasts all these goings on and the end times.Of course , you may dismiss it as 2000 years old and of no consequence but in your heart you know it speaks the truth and never changes. By their works you shall know them.
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“s that proof enough for you Jason? I’ll link you the story that’s from if you want.” It isn’t enough for me. Nobody knew how many weapons of the various typed the IRA had. In my opinion it was a stunt for political convenience.
“You have the comparison of the PIRA, who have disarmed, and the loyalist forces who not only haven’t disarmed ” They have (supposedly).
“Even if they are arming up again (which you are yet to actually prove as far as I can see), ” Where was that said, I must have missed it. They have not disarmed. They sacrificed some of their weaponry for a political stunt.
“Especially considering that the loyalist groups seem to think both loyalists and republicans are fair game in their fight.” Both sides think that. Do you not realise that PIRA killed RCs as well?
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Hold on, the Unionists agree to de Chastelain going and looking, he comes back and says they’ve disarmed, and is promptly, in effect, accused of lying. A cynic might say they’ve gone EU and aren’t happy they didn’t get the answer they wanted (i.e. that the PIRA were hiding something). I’m not saying that’s true, but I can imagine some cynics might argue that. You say I need to keep my eyes open, at least I have an open mind rather than just declaring them guitly without solid evidence (I thought it was still innocent until proven guilty in the UK, maybe not).The only “proof” of the IRA having weapons is the Real IRA being active, despite no actual link between the PIRA and the RIRA beyond them having ONCE been members of the RIRA which isn’t exactly conclusive evidence really. Maybe the Bible DOES predict it, but what if you’re wrong? I’m happy to admit if I’m proved wrong ultimately, yet you seem determined that there’s no way it can happen any other way.
Acorn, last I heard the loyalists were the only ones STILL shooting their own side, as well as the RUC, soldiers, Catholics…as I said, they seem to think everyone’s fair game. Like I said, if you’re gonna watch/disarm one side, do the same with the other, leaving one side armed and free to do what they like won’t keep NI safe.
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One person I really feel sorry for is Her Majesty The Queen. She wore a uniform, as did the Duke, in our darkest time ww2 and all the honour she stands for is being thrown away. It would a grown man weep.
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The one…well, ONE of the problems I have with religion is that it seems to be used as an excuse by pretty much anyone for their actions. The guy who went on a killing spree in abortion clinics admitted he was doing “God’s work” apparentely, one of the still active Loyalist groups actually quotes Bible verses everytime it attacks, nevermind the amount of discrimination and intolerance apparentely legitimized by religious belief.
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Edmund as far as a person being innocent until proven guilty is another law that no longer stands, due to the fascist warming crowd, ie if I see someone throw an object from a vehicle and that vehicle is reported to the authorities, the vehicle owner is fined right away, he is assumed guilty.Like I said, watch, because all your Magna Carta rights are being eroded daily and we are ruled by quislings, loyal to the EU. So if there is a vehicle in front of you which happens to belong to someone you dislike you know what to do. The police will be fighting to get to your door for a crime clearance, because they can do nothing else, they are not allowed to be british fair minded bobbies because of their political “superiors”.
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Edmund, live by the 10 commandments and you will not go wrong, never mind who quotes what. Like I said by their works you will know them.
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People can live entirely lawful lives without believing in religion, I in fact saw a Youtube video of a Christian arguing that it was possible for even an atheist to have morals. In my opinion as long as people aren’t breaking any laws it shouldn’t matter how they live their lives. It is, after all THEIR life, its not exactly freedom if we’re telling them how to live it in my opinion.
Jason, just out of curiosity, do you actually see any threat from the loyalists dissidents? You seem determined the IRA and/or its splinter groups are dangerous, yet ignore the danger posed by people like the Red Hand Defenders. Go to the families of Frankie O’Reilly (ex-RUC officer) and Rosemary Nelson (the lawyer killed while sat in her own car) that her killers were nothing more than gangsters and see how they react.
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Of course I agree that the loyalist thugs have commited heinous crimes and in no way do I sympethise with them. What I am trying to tell you is that the communist shinners have international backing in comparison with co down and co antrim, and even you must see that. In my own mind I still see the loyalists as mainly money and drug orientated as opposed to the cuban plan.You never hear the loyalists refer to a new ireland, or wrecking education as a deliberate measure of badness. Sorry, but I am sold on the premis that the commies are still on the end game ” we have not gone away you know “
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Apparentely I’m not paying enough attention to Northern Ireland politics, because I can’t remember hearing Sinn Fein or the PIRA saying that either. Care to produce proof they said it? My argument is deal with BOTH sets of thugs, the only people in Northern Ireland who have any right to be carrying guns are the soldiers and the police.
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